10 replies to this topic

[Nevin John]

When the Nokia 808 PureView was announced we all were really fascinated with the whopping 41 MP camera it packs in the rear but Sony comments on this move from Nokia as a "development announcement " rather than a consumer product. Moreover, Sony says the 41-megapixel camera is old technology and the company has used similar pixel zoom technology in its cameras for about a year.

Paul Genge, Sony UK's category development manager to Techradar team:

"It's quite clear it's a development announcement more than a retailable proposition, the technology is not new, it's only what our cameras have done for about a year now."

Source : Techradar

From Unofficial Sony Ericsson Blog: http://blog.se-nse.net/sony-says-nokia-808-pureview-is-old-wine-in-new-bottle/

[YB-)]

What they trying to say exactly?
How a 41MP Cam can use the technic used for old 2, 3 MP cams?

[joost206]

Sony says the thechnology used by Nokia is used in Sony camera's for a year now.

[REDHOTIRON2004]

It's true the technology used by Nokia in there 41MP mobile is nothing more than a gimmick to attract people rather than being useful. The technology being used only enlarges the picture taken in a way that the image quality is not lost so much. But, still it's just a software. Though, It would be interesting to see what are the real specifications of the camera module being used in that mobile.

Sony, still have a huge lead in camera department. Even Nokia in there reviews have mentioned that they don't expect this to be there flagship bestseller mobile.

Nokia needs to do much better than that!!!

[USEB Commenter]

Blog comment left by madreaper:

REDHOTIRON2004, you are mistaken. The camera module is really a 41MP sensor.
However, you can not set the camera to take anything larger than a 38MP picture. By default the camera on that phone is set to 8MP. This is set that way so that when you zoom you have plenty of pixel area on the sensor to use for the digital zoom. This way you can zoom 2 to 3 times without any loss in picture quality. That is why the camera won't let you use the 41MP mode. It always reserves pixel area on the sensor for zoom.
The reason Sony says this is old, is because other phones made by both companies have done something similar before. The only reason this is a big deal with the 41MP sensor, is that you have way more pixel area to utilize which allows you to zoom a lot more and keep detail on a phone.

[USEB Commenter]

Blog comment left by HolyBell:

@REDHOTIRON2004: You do know that Nokia is talking about an actual physical sensor, right? I too first doubted about the sensor, but then I saw the sample photos and was shocked. Apply some resampling to those photos to bring them down to 12MP and photo quality is almost perfect. See the samples yourself, and then judge them.

[REDHOTIRON2004]

Quote

madreaper:
Holybell:

If Nokia is using actual 41MP camera sensor. Then it's truly amazing!
Though, I am not sure about the quality. More 'MP' doesn't always mean better quality.
As, you yourself have said that if we reduce the size to actual 12MP camera then the pics are just perfect. So, that means that it's only comparable to a good 12MP camera as far as quality is concerned(which is impressive. But, not as good as a 41MP camera should have been).

Till now it was obvious that 'Optical ZOOM' is better than 'Digital ZOOM'. Now with 41MP camera it would be interesting to see what kind of results it generates when we compare it to 'Optical zoom' cameras.
If they are good enough. then we might see a greater competition in 'MP' department from other manufacturers as well. Because, till now optical zoom has been a very difficult task to achieve As far as mobile phones are concerned. This might be a new way to do the same thing without increasing the thickness of the mobile phone .

I would keep a close eye whenever it is launched and fully reviewed by reviewers.

[USEB Commenter]

Blog comment left by romeo:

@Redhotiron2004

The problem is that because of the phone you can't use de complete 41mp so it is using 38mp.

The big sensor is only there for the zooming if you would compare the nokia on 12mp with the sony s, they could be equal or the sony could be better(this is just an example) but when you zoom they both zoom only digital.
So the xperia s will lose allot of quality because it just has a 12mp sensor and the nokia will lose almost nothing because of the big sensor.

Optical zoom is still the best because there is no quality loss its like a binocular you see in the same quality far as you see without it close.

and i think that it really messes up the design so far(nokia 808pv)
but maybe if they can make it smaller:D

[REDHOTIRON2004]

USEB Commenter, on 29 March 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

<strong>Blog comment left by romeo:</strong><br><br>@Redhotiron2004<p>The problem is that because of the phone you can't use de complete 41mp so it is using 38mp.<p>The big sensor is only there for the zooming if you would compare the nokia on 12mp with the sony s, they could be equal or the sony could be better(this is just an example) but when you zoom they both zoom only digital.<br>So the xperia s will lose allot of quality because it just has a 12mp sensor and the nokia will lose almost nothing because of the big sensor.<p>Optical zoom is still the best because there is no quality loss its like a binocular you see in the same quality far as you see without it close.<p>and i think that it really messes up the design so far(nokia 808pv)<br>but maybe if they can make it smaller:D

Yes, Then I believe it's true that mobile companies have still a long way to go before they could incorporate optical quality zoom in there mobiles without increasing the size etc. And 'Nokia' have now shown a way of closing that gap by using a bigger sensor due to which a 12MP pic would look better even if we use zoom during capture. As compared to a native 12MP sensor pic taken with zoom.

I am quite hopeful. That companies now would keep on closing the gap between 'Optical' & 'digital Zoom' quality pics. Ultimately, making the size & weight of the mobile pretty small. And I think that 'Optical' zoom would ultimately be replaced by 'Digital zoom' in mobile pones due to the limitation in size which matters a lot in mobile phones !

[madREAPER]

REDHOTIRON2004, on 28 March 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

If Nokia is using actual 41MP camera sensor. Then it's truly amazing!
Though, I am not sure about the quality. More 'MP' doesn't always mean better quality.
As, you yourself have said that if we reduce the size to actual 12MP camera then the pics are just perfect. So, that means that it's only comparable to a good 12MP camera as far as quality is concerned(which is impressive. But, not as good as a 41MP camera should have been).

Till now it was obvious that 'Optical ZOOM' is better than 'Digital ZOOM'. Now with 41MP camera it would be interesting to see what kind of results it generates when we compare it to 'Optical zoom' cameras.
If they are good enough. then we might see a greater competition in 'MP' department from other manufacturers as well. Because, till now optical zoom has been a very difficult task to achieve As far as mobile phones are concerned. This might be a new way to do the same thing without increasing the thickness of the mobile phone .

I would keep a close eye whenever it is launched and fully reviewed by reviewers.

It is an actual 41MP camera. As for quality, it surpasses what their current camera king can do(12MP Carl Zeiss Lens,  N8) based on the pics they have been releasing that were taken with beta units.
Its nice to see the advancements in camera phones at this rate. This is why I have not carried around a dedicated camera since my W810i.  :-)

[bat400]

It's interesting how the release of the 808 has brought out the fanboys in force.  No end of Apple/Sony/Olympus/Nikon acolytes saying this is 'just a gimmick' or 'not new tech', just because their new toy doesn't come close to the 808 in the camera department.  I've lost count of the number of times I've had an iPhone owner criticise Symbian when they've never tried a Nokia Belle handset.  All my friends with Android phones tell me that their dual core processor is an essential phone component, but they're all carrying around chargers for when their phones run out of power at lunchtime.

Anyway, on the subject of Sony's statement that the 808 is "not new tech" and merely a "development announcement", here are the words of Damian Dinning who has headed up the development of the 808 PureView, as posted in comment 6 of the very article to which this thread refers:

Hi,
Id like to clarify a few points connected to the statements Mr Genge made which I thought may otherwise cause confusion. "It's quite clear it's a development announcement more than a retailable proposition, the technology is not new, it's only what our cameras have done for about a year now."

1. I am delighted to say (as per previous the information we disclosed during the 808s announcement) the Nokia 808 PureView IS a product that will be available during Q2 of this year.

2. The algorithms we needed to develop to provide the incredible detail the 808 PureView captures and creates in just 5mpix easy to share images were developed by Nokia and are the basis of Nokia proprietary technology.

3. We know of no other camera that uses a high resolution [41mpix] sensor in the unique ways we do to provide the following benefits:

i) 5mpix images which contain far higher levels of detail than cameras with far higher [than 5mpix] resolution sensors.

ii) despite the high levels of detail, file sizes are far smaller (because the pixels are purer) and therefore faster and easier to upload straight from the device. Which of course our devices have had the capability to do for many years.

iii) LOSSLESS zoom in full HD video and stills. There is NO upscaling used in ANY way in the 808 PureView. Unlike many digital cameras which rely on upscaling for digital zoom. Whilst some digital zoom implementations simply crop the sensor to provide a feeling of zoom. In our case when we are cropping (unless at full zoom) we have an abundance of pixels. We put those pixels to extremely effective use by oversampling the data from those pixels.

iv) One of the most important benefits of Nokia's proprietary pixel oversampling is that it retains the information you want (the detail), whilst filtering out most of the information you dont (noise). This is most noticeable in low light. Pixel oversampling is NOT the same as pixel binning. Others may be using binning but Nokia is not in the case of pixel oversampling. We are also NOT interpolating to create pixels that represent completely false information. As said we only oversample information originally captured by our super high resolution sensor and optics. The level of oversampling is as high as 16:1 in the case of full HD video. No other device I know of has such capability.

v) Using this method of zoom not only provides high image quality in a compact device but it also provides a silent zoom as well as allows the maximum aperture to be used even at full zoom.

I hope that clarifies a few points. Our white paper available from our website provides far more detail if you would like to know more.

Damian Dinning

(http://www.techradar...w-tech--1070903)

I think that pretty much sets the record straight.  The photos would make the supremacy of the 808 clear as well, if any of the fanboys were prepared to take ten seconds to actually go and look at them...

Al