39 replies to this topic

[MikLSP]

@ Snowiffic

of course the point of these is that it's my opinion and impressions of the phone and while I accept that you CAN "get used" to the annoyances of the device, you simply shouldn't have to. There are other devices out there which work much better and are more intuitive so why mold yourself round a badly produced device when you can simply get one which is natural from the outset

Mik

[hks_911]

Snowiffic, on 2009-11-11 15:02, said:

Idou is an amazing phone - no doubt there. But it's not the ultimate phone, no.

exactly u said the point clearly there, Satio will be a good phone for those who like S60 and i think the touchscreen is defenetly better than 5800 and N97

[phenombox]

MikLSP, on 2009-11-11 10:49, said:

@ Snowiffic

of course the point of these is that it's my opinion and impressions of the phone and while I accept that you CAN "get used" to the annoyances of the device, you simply shouldn't have to. There are other devices out there which work much better and are more intuitive so why mold yourself round a badly produced device when you can simply get one which is natural from the outset

Mik

The sentence "get used to", doesn't refer to the sentence "get used to it, because it's crap", but "get used to it, because it's different". That two opposite sentences and shouldn't be exchanged. Every man (or woman) his/her own taste.
I must admit I had problems using the touch messaging system, but that was because I never used such before (only when I borrowed friends' iPhone). After a week I'm typing as fast as I would do on my old non-touch phones (W890/W810/W580/W995 etc).

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exactly u said the point clearly there, Satio will be a good phone for those who like S60 and i think the touchscreen is defenetly better than 5800 and N97

The touchscreen is better than the one on 5800, I can't say about the N97 though. Some UI elements are also better.

[MikLSP]

It's certainly not amazing by the way, even as a SE fan I couldn't possibly say that. The only thing that amazed me was how disappointed I was. It's not like I decided against the phone from the start, I went into using the Satio with the highest of hopes and came out having seen nothing new and nothing intuitive and instead found it lacking in areas which should basically be standard in this day and age.

PS- I did find it was get used to because it's crap. A UI that changes on every screen IS crap. A touchscreen which doesn't always respond and sometimes select the wrong option IS crap, sorry.

I think the Satio could be acceptable for someone without knowledge of anything better but that's all.

[phenombox]

I guess SE had overrated it then for some people. When I saw it had S60v5 in it, I knew what I was paying for, and I knew that I wouldn't see something new or something I hadn't seen before. The only phones which it can be compared with, is the N97, iPhone and HTC's Android phones. All these manufacturers have their feet planted in solid ground, based on their experience with the OS they are using over the past years. Idou is the first S60 phone from SE, they have zero experience with it and therefor they also failed to many users, as these users expected something new in S60, meanwhile getting the same features as Nokia was pushing months ago. SE switches between OSes too fast.

I'm beginning to sound as a SE supporter in a customer center now, lol.

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PS- I did find it was get used to because it's crap. A UI that changes on every screen IS crap. A touchscreen which doesn't always respond and sometimes select the wrong option IS crap, sorry.

I think the Satio could be acceptable for someone without knowledge of anything better but that's all.

That's how S60 is designed. I saw your little video, and I must admit I could recognize myself navigating through the menus. However after knowing that double-tap actually activates an item, single tap and holding is for scrolling down menus, I don't find the UI so crappy as you else present it to be. Also, noticing the way you tried to scroll down in the messaging menu, I can clearly see that you are used to another UI.

Maybe it has too many elements at one time on the screen? That's possible compared to an iPhone, yes.

[hks_911]

and BTW N97 didnt had kinetic scrolling when its released but Nokia fixed it with firmware update so i think SE can also do it, isnt it?

[phenombox]

Kinetic scrolling? Do you mean that it will scroll by itself if you lift your finger? There is kinetic scrolling in the Idou then, moving your finger from up to down and then releasing it will accelerate the menu to scroll further down, depending on the speed you moved your finger at.

Its there in the Media menu, not in the contacts menu though, thats true.

[hks_911]

its very bad that SE only concentrate in the Media Menu section
BTW heres a vid showing an N97 with kinetic scrolling and a 5800 without it, thats just superb

[MikLSP]

Snowiffic, on 2009-11-11 10:04, said:

That's how S60 is designed. I saw your little video, and I must admit I could recognize myself navigating through the menus. However after knowing that double-tap actually activates an item, single tap and holding is for scrolling down menus, I don't find the UI so crappy as you else present it to be. Also, noticing the way you tried to scroll down in the messaging menu, I can clearly see that you are used to another UI.

I realise that it's due to S60 and I also know that you would learn to know which areas are single tap, double tap, kinetic scrolling or awkward scrolling BUT you shouldn't have to! There's no excuse for such a mixed up UI.
I am used to other UI's such as iPhone and Android but even WM operates in a similar and logical manner when scrolling lists. Satio starts of working like this and then switches to the opposite, that's why I deliberately demonstrated that in the video.

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Maybe it has too many elements at one time on the screen? That's possible compared to an iPhone, yes.

Don't actually know what you mean there. I use Android primarily and that handles plenty of different screens but keeps the same user interaction throughout.

Snowiffic, on 2009-11-11 10:19, said:

Kinetic scrolling? Do you mean that it will scroll by itself if you lift your finger? There is kinetic scrolling in the Idou then, moving your finger from up to down and then releasing it will accelerate the menu to scroll further down, depending on the speed you moved your finger at.

Its there in the Media menu, not in the contacts menu though, thats true.

Kinetic scrolling is indeed like that present in the Media menu and SE standby theme but, as emphasised in the review, sticking it in one or two areas which then contradict the rest of the UI is worse than not having it at all!

If the underlying OS is capable of it as that YouTube video clearly shows then it's inexcusable laziness on SE's part not to have made the whole handset operate that way.

[phenombox]

hks_911, on 2009-11-11 11:49, said:

its very bad that SE only concentrate in the Media Menu section
BTW heres a vid showing an N97 with kinetic scrolling and a 5800 without it, thats just superb

That's cool!

MikLSP, on 2009-11-11 12:22, said:

I realise that it's due to S60 and I also know that you would learn to know which areas are single tap, double tap, kinetic scrolling or awkward scrolling BUT you shouldn't have to! There's no excuse for such a mixed up UI.
I am used to other UI's such as iPhone and Android but even WM operates in a similar and logical manner when scrolling lists. Satio starts of working like this and then switches to the opposite, that's why I deliberately demonstrated that in the video.

No matter how hard I try, I still can't get the point in "you shouldn't have to", you need to get the new UI to learn no matter what, else it would look like the other UIs too much. Again, get used to differences, not crap. Mixed up UI? The only part I can notice while I use it every day that is mixed up, is the missing kinetic scrolling, and I only noticed that now after reading this thread.

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Don't actually know what you mean there. I use Android primarily and that handles plenty of different screens but keeps the same user interaction throughout.

I don't want to hesitate and blame the iPhone UI/Android UI to be too simple, I know for sure iPhone's UI is simple, can't say much on the Android though as I've only seen it a couple of times.

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Kinetic scrolling is indeed like that present in the Media menu and SE standby theme but, as emphasised in the review, sticking it in one or two areas which then contradict the rest of the UI is worse than not having it at all!

I have to disagree there, there is no point in having kinetic scrolling in a short menu (only reason I see for this is to play with it), as kinetic scrolling are intended for longer lists, ex: track list in music player. However I must admit that it is lazily done by SE not putting it into contact list.

[devilwasabi]

Whatever it is this Satio scrolling thing sucks, it definitely needs Kinetic scrolling.

[MikLSP]

Snowiffic, on 2009-11-11 11:59, said:

No matter how hard I try, I still can't get the point in "you shouldn't have to", you need to get the new UI to learn no matter what, else it would look like the other UIs too much. Again, get used to differences, not crap. Mixed up UI? The only part I can notice while I use it every day that is mixed up, is the missing kinetic scrolling, and I only noticed that now after reading this thread.

I've highlighted several inconsistencies in the review.
It doesn't matter how new the OS is to a company, they chose to use it and they developed the product to the point they believed was acceptable for release. The fact that they left some UI elements with kinetic scrolling, some the complete opposite, some single click and some double click is beyond inexperience, it's just lazy.

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I have to disagree there, there is no point in having kinetic scrolling in a short menu (only reason I see for this is to play with it), as kinetic scrolling are intended for longer lists, ex: track list in music player. However I must admit that it is lazily done by SE not putting it into contact list.

It doesn't matter how long the menu is, the UI experience should be consistent throughout! That's the whole point.
And if it's to be one or the other then kinetic vs moronic scrolling is a no brainer.

devilwasabi, on 2009-11-11 12:23, said:

Whatever it is this Satio scrolling thing sucks, it definitely needs Kinetic scrolling.

Exactly, the S60 menu scrolling is dreadful and SE should have done something about it instead of just taking a Nokia and sticking their Media menu and a camera on it.

[hks_911]

Okay guys lets stop this, now i came in to a conclution that most of us here hate Nokia and whatever made by Nokia thats the basic point, and this is exactly what Mik tried to say

[MikLSP]

We're simply discussing different views, that's what the forum is essentially for

My review does summarise my dislikes and it turns out they are largely due to Nokia and SE's laziness but that isn't to say that I started out with negative thoughts towards it being a Nokia device. I simply found these dislikes upon using it and my great expectations for Satio really fell flat.

[hks_911]

was just kidding man
ur views r correct as the title says its ur opinion, and snowiffic has his own

[devilwasabi]

MikLSP, on 2009-11-11 20:39, said:

Exactly, the S60 menu scrolling is dreadful and SE should have done something about it instead of just taking a Nokia and sticking their Media menu and a camera on it.

Honestly i don't think it's Nokia or Symbian S60's fault, it should be SE's fault. N97, running same platform as the Satio(S60v5) latest update is said to have kinetic scrolling. Since Nokia has already added it to N97, i don't see why can't SE add it to Satio. IMO Satio's UI is just basically copied and paste from Nokia, and then add their media, own homescreen etc.

[jock]

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IMO Satio's UI is just basically copied and paste from Nokia, and then add their media, own homescreen etc.

Perhaps that's why Sony Ericsson has written that it uses S60? Think a bit before making dumb statements...

[hks_911]

thats right

[MikLSP]

@ devilwasabi

That's pretty much the same as I said, you quoted me saying that SE should have done something more

@ Jock

It's not so dumb, SE could have used S60 but put in the effort to make it more suitable for the device and match their own custom UI elements.

[jock]

Well it's SE, we'll never see a finished device lol