[weirdwilli]

Not sure where this should go as its not exactly too relevant with anything, i just thought it was quite interesting!


From Eldar (Over at MobileReview):

"Information leaks, which were the theme of one of my last articles, have become a common practice and oftentimes they are nothing but another way to warm up the audience and get some support from the press. But they haven’t really mastered this art so far, unfortunately. Or, how are we supposed to think about the rumor that Sony doesn’t trust Sony Ericsson with a gaming-centric mobile device and will rather create it without SE’s help? Obviously, there is a grain of truth in this statement, but that’s about it – what they are talking about is not a mobile phone, but a gaming console armed with VoIP functionality that will allow for calls within WiFi networks. Probably, I will have to get my head around what’s going on in Sony Ericsson and type up a good, juicy article about it. The problem is, they have been taking utterly inconsistent steps lately and the prices for their new phones have been soaring up throughout the globe. Sadly, they won’t have anything revolutionary in stock for months to come. Furthermore, their overly strict information security policies, when even the maker’s employees don’t know what’s going on, make things even worse. If their management will keep it up, LG won’t have a hard time settling on its current position – they are aggressive, ingenious and are all set to start increasing their share world-wide. On the other hand, over at Sony Ericsson they are still euphoric about their past achievements. Wake up, check out the calendar – it’s mid 2008, and your bragging rights from 2005 (and a little bit of 2006) are all but gone now.

Having played around with prototypes of most handsets planned up until April, 2009, I can say only one thing. It’s time for a serious shake-up in Sony Ericsson’s roster – they simply need to seize the people who approved most of these offerings by the scruff of the neck and throw them out of the company. You can’t copy someone else’s solutions and think that your brand power will do the rest. I could go on with my rant about the brand that I truly like (or liked? I’m not sure about the tense), but the bottom line is this – there is no method to their actions, and I really hope I’ll be able to show good examples of where Sony Ericsson’s strategy has gone wrong and what kind of mess they are in."

This might mean we will only be seeing average phones from SE in the upcoming announcement.

Posted by hgautam on Esato.

Another Quote from apolloa: But it's a known fact Sony is pumping more resources into it's Games and TV business this year to make up lost profit.


Maybe SE will stop being unique and focus on simpler phones that guarantee profit or sales?

This post has been edited by weirdwilli: 10 July 2008 - 07:25 PM

[Mr.Phear]

Oh that sucks if its true. I was ready to blow my money out on a very high end SE phone either the end of this year or next. hopefully this isnt true and they do announce some more high end phones so i have more options to pick from

[Step666]

They've already announced the new high-end Cybershot model and the new top-of-the-range Walkman model is going to be announced some time later in the year.
The UIQ handsets have only just been released and we already know about the X1.

What other high-end handsets could they have left to announce just now?

And how, therefore, is it disappointing that they'll be announcing mid-range handsets instead?
After all, there are only a handful of high-end handsets (ie one at the top of each range), whereas there are loads of mid-range phones, so logic dictates that they have to unveil more mid-range models than high-end ones, meaning there's bound to be times when they're only announcing mid-range phones.

[Mr.Phear]

Those UIQ phones are the ones i'm talking about. SE told us that they would be releasing phones made more for the market (idk how it was worded, but basically they would try to make them international) and yet the G series flagship, the G900, is a triband phone. I'm just saying that SE is yet to announce a quadband phone (at least) under the G series. There's one (and probably my only) example.

I do agree that they have announced the Cybershot flagship, and the Xperia X1. The Walkman one is supposed to be announced in the coming weeks. But SE also hinted at other Xperia phones, but would this "average" announcement affect the xperia line? because as far as we know, the Xperia line will be "user based" phones (which in my mind just kinda clicks as "high end")

If I said anything that doesnt make any sense or is just wrong, my bad, lol. I just let my mind start typing, so I might have some incorrect stuff up there.

[Step666]

Well, I disagree with your assumption that a tri-band phone is somehow less suitable than a quad-band phone. Yes, quad-band would be nice but it's far from necessary.
And I would also say that the G-series so far exactly fits the description of being 'more for the market' - compared to previous UIQ handsets, I think that their design makes them more 'approachable' to most people, that they're more mainstream than previous offerings.

As for the Xperia line, yes we were told there would be additional handsets being released over time but given they haven't even gotten the first one to the market yet, it's hardly unreasonable that they haven't started announcing more.
Also how exactly you equate 'user based' to 'high end', I don't quite know.

[Mr.Phear]

quadband is nice, but it's also "necessary" for the US. I mean, I know that the US is only a small portion of Sony Ericsson's sales, but if they had quadband, wouldn't they be selling more phones here? the US is not really getting too many phones that are suitable for the market.

I do agree that the G-series is "more for the market" right now, but again, if they used quadband, the US would be able to use them, so wouldn't that be even better for SE's profits? You know what I'm saying right

And again for Xperia, I see exactly what you're saying, but they did say the Xperia line was for a "premium experience" did they not? I read that somewhere, and usually premium means money to me

[maniacks]

Well guys i don think you understood wat ELDAR meant...
Wat he s tryin to tell is that SE are just rolling out phones only in the same platform i.e., a200

Although all phones have made maximum utilization of this platform there s nothin new

Also SE have failed to provide and bring the A300 platform and now the symbian series 40 edition 5 is a threat to SE... As according to him has an upper hand

[Wally_Dog]

I think SE should start going more to the "touch" ui instead of buttons... seems like everyone wants touch technology now. Apple iPhones are certainly going to gain some ground with Apple releasing new firmware every once in awhile that includes new features, not bug fixes like SE seems to always do... I hope the X1 gets updates like the iPhone does.

[Step666]

Developing touchscreen phones to compete with the iPhone would just result in being criticised for 'copying' it.

As for the firmware update to the iPhone, what exactly has it added?
It's mostly just to allow the older phones to work with the App store, isn't it? In which case it's an update motivated by greed as much as it is customer service.

maniacks, on 2008-07-12 16:05, said:

Wat he s tryin to tell is that SE are just rolling out phones only in the same platform i.e., a200

Although all phones have made maximum utilization of this platform there s nothin new

The A200 platform is hardly old, have barely rolled it out across the upper end of their range.
So to try and criticise them for not having moved onto something new already seems ridiculous IMO.

Storm in a teacup.

[EldarMurtazin]

Guys - Frankly I was support SE for ages for creativity, design, for the best quality/price ratio. All things are gone

I worked with almost all models which are coming to the market in next 12 months, except X2, X5.

I dont believe in any single products, no such hero products. UIQ is very weak - they trying to make Paris with more memory - ridicioulos. Next year - some new products based on S60 - hey who is the winner? Nokia may be?

X1 will be on selected markets in December - 700-800 Euro. Internally SE discussed that stable version of software will be roll out not untill Feb or even later.

W585 - the same problems with keys like in w580. They know about it now. But discussed - what will be the best way, lauch phone with problems or repair it in house. Funny talking...

I will prepare a long article about crisis inside of SE. It isnt strong company anymore, they dont have clear goals. Pity for me

And after all - they thinking that it isnt SE problems, it is my point of view and all products are nearly great... They are living in imaginery world, not the real one

I dont like average products and bad build quality. But they loose market share, margin and try to create a new economy - rubbish materials = more margin. Really hate this.

[F-Lexx]

EldarMurtazin, on 2008-07-14 23:48, said:

I worked with almost all models which are coming to the market in next 12 months, except X2, X5.

I dont believe in any single products, no such hero products. UIQ is very weak - they trying to make Paris with more memory - ridicioulos. Next year - some new products based on S60 - hey who is the winner? Nokia may be?

Do you mean that SE are going to make S60-based phones in the next year? Or were you saying only that Nokia's next S60-based products will kick the crap out of SE's next UIQ phones?

BTW, I'm really waiting for your article about SE's downward spiral. I hope they read it and take it as a kick in their managers' behinds...

[eternal_wind]

@Eldar,

How do you feel when you heard about C905?

[EldarMurtazin]

SE are going to use S60 as a standard platform for devices in the future (not only for Non TS devices but for TS too)

C905? I saw it before. No chances against Nokia Smartphone is better than just a phone...
And it is not bad product in all terms - but a very cheap sensor will be used - Samsung using in 8510 better optics and sensor

[BrightSpark]

EldarMurtazin, on 2008-07-15 19:57, said:

SE are going to use S60 as a standard platform for devices in the future (not only for Non TS devices but for TS too)

C905? I saw it before. No chances against Nokia Smartphone is better than just a phone...
And it is not bad product in all terms - but a very cheap sensor will be used - Samsung using in 8510 better optics and sensor

now that symbian is open source with all top 5 manufacturers participating in its membership and development, s60 may well increase significantly.

[EldarMurtazin]

Yes, but Nokia will win more form it than others for sure

[Step666]

EldarMurtazin, on 2008-07-15 18:57, said:

Smartphone is better than just a phone...

Matter of opinion.

I have no need for a smartphone and Symbian is just horrible IMO - I loathe the UI and could never use it out of choice.
I'd take a 'feature phone' over a smartphone any day of the week.

I realise that's me and that what I say doesn't apply to everyone but I doubt I'm alone in just not wanting a Symbian device.

This post has been edited by Step666: 15 July 2008 - 08:25 PM

[mrdoubleb]

Eldar, I really feel you.

I've been an SE fan, maybe even a "blind" fanboy at times, for years now. Actually it started with my Ericsson T65 and my respect and admiration for this brand only grew with each milestone. They were the technical innovators who also happened to design the sexiest yet most elegant phones and sell them at a very good price too. I remember how i gloated with the SD/MP3 player attached to my cute T300 with a color display while others kept filling up their pockets with (back then) expensive and huge dedicated mp3 players. I also remember how I waited for my K750 and then amazed everyone with the pictures it took when phones were lightyears behind even the cheapest digital camera. I'm still using that phone today.

I couldn't say where exactly it started to go wrong but it might have already been with - surprisingly enough - the k750/w800 sisters. That's when SE decided: they know better what consumers need than anyone else, even the consumers themselves. That's when they started segmenting the market artificially.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there is no logic to their way of thinking. One could create a music focused lineup and use the powerful Walkman brand if it actually had substance to it on the technical side, i.e. a dedicated audio chip, a 3,5mm jack, etc. But today the only differnece between a W series phone and a C series one is the version of the walkman software. One could also use the Cybershot brand for the imaging focused devices - if only the hardware was different. Use a LED flash, CMOS chip and digital zoom for the non Cybershot models but give CCD, Xenon and optical zoom for the premium camera phones.

However even if they did that, they would still make the same mistake as they do today: they think they can tell the consumers what they need. They think that just because someone likes to listen to music a lot while, say, commuting to work by public transportation every day, they don't want to use their phone as a camera that much. But why? Who told them this works like that? They think that they can make a youth-focused campaign for the shake-control-gimmick and sell kids these W phones without flash, making a dark nightclub - where these party kids go on the weekend - the only place where you literally cannot take a picture. They still think GPS and Wifi are for high end business phones only, so the walkman kids - according to SE - don't want to browse the internet for free or navigate with their phones. And by the way: GPS and Wifi are not needed in the same phone just like 3G HSDPA and Wifi exclude each other as well - at SE that is, while Nokia and the others are flooding the market with midrange fully equipped phones. There was little to no improvement in screen resolution or color reproduction for years now, not to mention upgrading the aspect ratio to 16:9, while LG and Samsung are leaping ahead with widescreen, divx capable phones recording in VGA.

So when our company decided to get new phones for everyone this month after 2 years, as I was put in charge of this operation I realized that as much as I love(d) SE, i couldn't recommend it to anyone. The Nokia E51 really was the best business choice for most, while those who wanted GPS as well, went for the N82 and they also got the 5 megapixel camera with the Xenon flash as a bonus. Me? I decided to wait for now, but I'm also torn between the Touch Diamond and the N82 - the G900 was a contender for a while, but the lack of Xenon flash and GPS excluded it in no time.

I'm sorry to say I'm sick and tired of waiting for SE to finally get their act together. My k750 is dying on me (joystick replaced 3x already) and I need a new mid to high end phone. I still don't want to carry a walkman, a phone and a camera around separately, but 3 years after buying my k750 I also want the latest features as well. GPS and Wifi are a must these days, while a 16:9 display and optical camera zoom might make me hold out and wait a bit longer until they are more mainstream.

Judging form what you're saying about the next 3 quarters of SE products, I think I'll have no choice but to say good bye to SE as well.

[Mango]

"They think that just because someone likes to listen to music a lot while, say, commuting to work by public transportation every day, they don't want to use their phone as a camera that much. But why? Who told them this works like that? They think that they can make a youth-focused campaign for the shake-control-gimmick and sell kids these W phones without flash, making a dark nightclub - where these party kids go on the weekend - the only place where you literally cannot take a picture. They still think GPS and Wifi are for high end business phones only, so the walkman kids - according to SE - don't want to browse the internet for free or navigate with their phones."

You've hit this right! I want a decent music player AND a decent camera. I don't just exist in music playing mode and then move to an 'imaging' mode and get out another piece of kit out to take a good picture. The K750i was such a fantastic phone because it did all of those things brilliantly.

I couldn't believe how they removed 'Mega Bass' from the k800i because they deemed it to be an 'imaging' product. I had that confirmed in an email from SE tech support.

For my business and personal use, I want GPS, music, good camera and SE interface. I can't stand the horrible Nokia interface but might be forced to learn it because they've got models (the N85 or N95 - I can never remember these stupid model numbers) with all of these things and GPS. What the hell is SE doing? Have they got adult supervision or have they been infiltrated by Nokia agents bent on destroying the company?

Segmenting the market in this bizzare manner, rather like US radio stations that only play one type of music is simply stupid. Most people I know like a huge variety of music.

And here in the UK, we generally get our phone for 'free' with a reasonable monthly charge. The retail cost of a phone (to me, at least) has never been a big factor.

The iPhone, for all its' faults (and it has many) doesn't offer a segmented versions of itself. It has music, WiFi, GPS, an excellent interface, a crappy camera and no MMS. Yet, its' integration of all these elements and the brilliant marketing will make SE's offerings seem ..... a little tired.

Can someone tell SE that WiFi and GPS are now expected as a default! Now means this year and not in 6-8 months time.

[BrightSpark]

the problem probably has a lot to do with the seemingly growing influence of sony and semmingly decreasing influence of ericsson over the company.

[Mr.Phear]

BrightSpark, on 2008-07-15 20:39, said:

the problem probably has a lot to do with the seemingly growing influence of sony and semmingly decreasing influence of ericsson over the company.

whatever it is, i may be converting from SE to nokia or samsung soon, because I am pretty much fed up with SE. After using my w810i for 3-4 months, i told myself that I would never get another phone other than an SE. but now, it seems that I will be breaking that, because they are not doing anything that makes me want to buy another one. Like you guys said, I want a walkman that can also take good pictures, with wifi, gps, and the works. Not just a walkman, that does "meh" pictures, and no other goodies.

I love the SE UI, and that's the only reason I am still sticking with them RIGHT NOW. the samsung UI is horrible to me, and the nokia one just doesnt feel natural after using SE for more than 2 years. But if they continue with this nonsense, I will just transfer over to another brand. and while some might say "oh, SE doesnt care if you change over, you're just one customer" I am feeling that I'm not the only one that feels this way.